Graflex.org

[Paul Kinzer]

I'm looking at buying a Horseman 970 or 980 6x9 field camera. I already own a 2x3 Speed Graphic, as well as a Mamiya RB67, and have backs that will work on these, actually including a newer Horseman 6x9 back. I'd obviously like touse the backs I have on the camera I buy.

But I've read in many places now that the older Horseman cameras, like the 970 and 980, do not allow the use of either RB, Graflex, or other 6x9 backs (Wista, etc.) because of some kind of protruding metal on the 970 and 980 bodies. Nearly all of the places that mention this say something along the lines of 'In order to use these other backs on these cameras, the camera itself will need to by modified. There are many places online that describe how to do this modification.' Really? Because I've been looking for hours now and cannot find anything along those lines; no images, instructions, links, nada.

The newer Horseman 6x9s -- the 985, the VH, VH-R, and the ER-1 -- all allow the use of normal, common 6x9 Graflok type film backs (including the Horseman one I own, which was made for the newer cameras). So, why not just get one of them? Because I'm cheap!

I'm also handy, and own plenty of tools, including an old and still somewhat useful milling machine. I like repairing, refurbishing, modifying and upgrading old cameras (I've had well over a hundred Speed and Crown graphics go through my hands.)

Can someone help me out, please? Either with a link, images, or a description of just what needs to be done? I've looked at images of all the backs of the Horseman cameras, and cannot tell from that. I figure I could probably just order the camera (from Japan, where most seem to be), and figure it out once it gets here, by holding the film holder up to it. But I could also be wrong; a very common occurrence!

[Paul Kinzer]

Hmmm.... over a hundred people have viewed my post, but no replies. I guess my quandary is uncommon enough for that to not be a surprise.

I'm going to go ahead and order the 980, even though the post has not been up long, because I lack patience. (I've wondered about these cameras for years, and already own the 65mm lens made for them.) I'll figure out the mod it needs once it gets here, or maybe someone will answer the post in the meantime.

I'll try to remember to take some images and post them here, just so anyone else trying to figure this out can find some information on it, rather than just a statement about it being necessary.

I have a varied bunch of lenses that could work well on this camera, though they weren't made for it, other than the 65 f/7 Topcor. I've got a 90mm f/6.8 Wollensak wide angle Raptar, a Wollensak 101mm F/4.5 Velostigmat, a 150mm f/6.3 Rodenstock Geronar, a 162mm f/4.5 Graflex Optar, a 210mm f/6.8 Geronar, and a 10" f/5.6 Graflex Tele-Optar.

This is obviously way more lenses than I need. A few I already had, and I found a few more for a frankencamera project that hasn't worked out the way I'd hoped: I found a very inexpensive Pacemaker 3x4 Speed Graphic, and modified it with a Toyo 6x9 sliding back. It works just fine, but the sliding back adds so much distance from the lens to the film plane that I cannot get lenses wider than 100mm to come to infinity focus on it.

I knew this was probably going to happen, but hoped that, with the 3x4's larger lens board opening (compared to my 2x3), I could find a way to make recessed lens boards for wider lenses. It's why I bought the 65mm Topcor lens. But, so far, no such luck. The front opening is still too small for any lenses I've found. I'm not giving up, though. The focal plane shutter will allow me to try small lenses in barrel, which don't have all the doohickeys sticking out that shuttered lenses do.

A cool thing is that the lens boards I made for the 3x4 frankencamera are almost the right size to fit on the Horseman! The 3x4 wants boards that are 80x83mm. I got a chunk of 1/8th-inch thick aluminum, and, so far, have made 6 boards. All I need to do to get them to fit on the 980 is to grind off 1.5mm from the top and the bottom of each board. Easy peazy!

The horseman cameras use cams for each lens in order to allow rangefinder focusing. These sell for silly amounts of money on eBay (over $50 for a 1.5-inch long bit of metal!) I've found a bunch of images of these cams, and plan to make my own.

Anyway, can you tell I don't really have anyone to discuss this stuff with? I have a lot of fun with this kind of thing, but no one nearby who could give a shrug about it. I'd be grateful for any thoughts anyone reading this might have.