Graflex.org

tmike · Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Ottawa

Hi, all. I'm a newcomer to Graflex cameras.

I have 2 old 4x5 cameras, a Crown and a Speed. One has a Kodak Ektar Supermatic (X) f4.7 127mm with solenoid and the other has a Rapax f 4.7 135mm without solenoid.

I don't know if the solenoid works. The flash doesn't fire via the shutter-solenoid but the old, brittle sync cord to the solenoid might be the problem there.

I want to sell the Crown because I don't want to keep both and it's rougher around the edges than the pretty Speed...

My question is, which one is the better one to keep in terms of quality, reliability, etc.?

Thanks.

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Michael Taylor
Ottawa, Canada

"...wish I'D said that..." -Bartlett

woodplane · Joined: 20 Sep 2005 Posts: 33 Location: Chicago

Quick answer: Keep the Ektar
Better answer: Try them both and see which one you like better. There are test targets at http://www.normankoren.com if you want try that. As for practical tests, there's as many ways to test a lens as ways to use it. Best to take photos typical of what you will be using it for. Eliminate foolers like camera shake or long exposures of moving objects, which will make any lens look bad. Try photos at different f-stops as most lenses perform best at one particular stop. Try a back-lit subject into the sun if you think you will be doing that. Some lenses have unacceptable flare. If you don't want to waste too much film, make a 1/4 mask that you switch for each shot to get 4 frames on 1 sheet.

RichS · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:14 am Post subject:

Yes, you should try them to see for yourself which one you like better.

With all things being equal, I would opt for the 135. The 127 will barely cover 4x5 and the 135 has a bigger image circle. But with age and tinkering involved, there's no way to tell which lens may be better now? As for the shutters. Same thing. They're both good when good. How they are now after so many years only you can tell. Although I'm sure there's some folks here that will know which one may be better as far as repairs and reliablility go. I don't see anything wrong with either shutter myself...

Overall, I would simply keep both cameras. It's awfull nice to have a spare laying around!

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"Ya just can't have too many GVIIs"

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tmike · Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Ottawa

Thanks for the replies.

I should have added: both lenses need major CLAs therefore their shutter operation at the moment is very very slow. I can't test them properly.

They both look great; clean, no damage, no apparent signs of overuse.

Chhers from snowy-this-morning Ottawa.

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Michael Taylor
Ottawa, Canada

"...wish I'D said that..." -Bartlett

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: New Jersey

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

Hello,
Other posts you can read here will varify that the Speed and Crown have basic differences like the Speed has the FPS, a slightly longer bellows draw, and is heavier. On the Other hand, the Crown can focus short wide angle lenses and is lighter, but can not use barrel lenses etc...
A couple notes on your lenses. The Lens on the Rapax shutter I am assuming is a Wollensak Raptar 135mm. These are good general purpose lenses that have a pretty good single coating. they were not created equal, and I find that every one I get my hands on has subtle differences, mostly good. Depending on condition, I would keep this, and the Rapax shutter tends to take a CLA very well. The Ektar may be coated or uncoated giving you a wide difference in contrast, and if uncated probably wont do color very well. Most coated Ektars are post WWII and have a little "L" in a circle after the serial number. the Supermatic shutters can run excellent if springs and inner works have not been abbused, but if tired, they do not always CLA very well on average compared to the Rapax type. I think you should keep them both and test them on the FPS shutter of the Speed as recommended above. The idea being to figure out what you have there first before making your decission and have perhaps a chance to shoot a couple things consistent with your intended use for the lenses. an example would be, while you may see a noteceably sharper image on your GG with the Ektar, than that of the Wollensak lens, if it isn't coated, the film will show you something different.
Check 'em out.

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: New Jersey

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

Technical note:
All "uncoated" Ektars are in fact coated but only on the inner surfaces. (Kodak technical data, ca. 1946)

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Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2146 Location: New Jersey

troublemaker · Joined: 24 Nov 2003 Posts: 715 Location: So Cal

OH gosh Dan, we'll have him confused yet!

Rangemaster · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:14 am Post subject:

I don't even understand how someone could consider getting rid of a piece of photo equipment, I mean come on, what is the world comming to!!!!!!!!!!!!

Get some help, please...

LMFAO!!!

Dave

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Focus on the Picture, Not on the Glass.
Satin Snow(TM) Ground Glass

45PSS · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 3:28 am Post subject:

Michael,
Send them to me and I'll tell you which one I like!

Charles

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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

tmike · Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 8 Location: Ottawa

Thanks for all the high-end advice, all. It really is appreciated.

I finally figured out how to fire the flash bulbs via the solenoid of the Supermatic X. The Crown came with that lens and a funky-looking cord; at first I had no idea where to hook it up. Then, after I found the insert on the solenoid, it wouldn't fire the bulb upon releasing the shutter!!

Then it clicked (get it?); it's a solenoid! It's electric. It moves when you press the button on the battery case!

I don't know anyone here who knows their way around these cameras. There has to be someone.

Once again, thanks.

And thanks for the welcome.

Cheers from very snowy (but sunny) Ottawa.

Les · Joined: 09 May 2001 Posts: 2682 Location: Detroit, MI

afellow member hycamcan is from Ottawa, but I'm not sure how often he comes around anymore. Try looking him up on ebay and sending him a message that way. Tell him I sent you

Les

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"In order to invent, you need a good imagination and a lot of junk" Thomas Edison